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Author Topic: Donations? Hell, NO! Get something tangible for your money-HERE!  (Read 42786 times)
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Existence exists & Man's mind can know it.

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« on: 2008-December-18 09:31:37 AM »

Donations? Hell, NO! Get something tangible for your money-HERE!

Get something tangible for your money, something you like and can use.
Visit my Artemis Zuna Trading Post

If you find something you like, buy it.
If you DON'T find something you want, sent me an email at

My Artemis Zuna Trading Post now offers Bitcoin graphics on shirts, cups, posters, wall peels, license plates and numerous other items.

*-Coming soon-* accept Bitcoins for payments *-Coming soon-*
« Last Edit: 2016-May-17 10:14:15 PM by DennisLeeWilson » Logged

Objectivist & Sovereign Individual
Creator of Atlas Shrugged Celebration Day & Artemis Zuna Trading Post
Signatory: Covenant of Unanimous Consent
Creator of this site
Forum/Blog Owner
Posts: 1331

Existence exists & Man's mind can know it.

WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: 2009-March-15 10:17:58 AM »

Links to this page:

     PayPal Sucks

SPECIAL NOTICE & WARNING: PayPal is now an eBay company.

Why would you ever want to give these people access to your credit card or checking account?

Added 2014-08-23  

What more needs to be said about a government that IGNORES Paypal's abuses while robbing Liberty Dollar of their warehoused gold, silver and copper?

Need another reason? How about this one:

  • Before leaving the interview room I asked for the reason that a warrant was served on my flat and I was told that it had something to do with an eBook that I had purchased with Paypal. Of course, I instantly knew the book in question. It was P.A. Luty's Expedient Homemade Firearms—I knew this because there was no other eBooks that I had bought with Paypal.

Excerpted from "Locked up just before Open Heart Surgery for Downloading Mr Luty's eBook" by Clifford Rutley in THE LIBERTARIAN ENTERPRISE, Number 579, July 18, 2010

If you ignore all these warnings,
you get what you deserve and will justly deserve what you get.
(The same warning goes for government airports.)

« Last Edit: 2015-December-12 08:48:25 PM by DennisLeeWilson » Logged

Objectivist & Sovereign Individual
Creator of Atlas Shrugged Celebration Day & Artemis Zuna Trading Post
Signatory: Covenant of Unanimous Consent
Creator of this site
Forum/Blog Owner
Posts: 1331

Existence exists & Man's mind can know it.

WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: 2011-March-12 12:24:44 PM »

Wiki-Leaks on USG--and PayPal and Amazon and eBay

ANOTHER very good reason to BOYCOTT PAYPAL
Add COWARDS AND THIEVES to the list above

4 December 2010
PayPal cuts Wikileaks access for donations

The online payments processor, PayPal, says it has cut access for donations to the whistle-blowing website Wikileaks.

PayPal said its payment service cannot be used for activities "that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity".

[So just exactly WHAT is the "illegal activity"? WHAT has Wikileaks or Julian Assange been charged with, and WHEN and WHERE was the trial and conviction?

PayPal also KEPT the WikiLeaks funds that it has collected. THAT is open, bald-faced ROBBERY!! Where is "the law" when it is needed?

PayPal SUCKS and SUCKS and SUCKS!...and so does government!]

Wikileaks' latest releases - of US diplomatic cables - have caused considerable embarrassment to the US and its allies, correspondents say.

[Dear government,
As you keep telling US MUNDANES: "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to fear."]

It has been forced to change its web address after sustained cyber attacks.

In a statement, US-based PayPal said donations could no longer be made to Wikileaks because of "a violation of the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy"

Earlier, the company providing Wikileaks with its domain name,, cut off service because the domain had become the target of "multiple distributed denial of service (DDOS) attacks".

The company said: "These attacks have, and future attacks would, threaten the stability of the infrastructure, which enables access to almost 500,000 other websites."

Wikileaks later reappeared using a Swiss web address.

It had earlier turned to the online store Amazon to host its site but the company ended the agreement on Wednesday - a move welcomed by US officials.

[Big surprise! Amazon and PayPal are owned by the same company. So AMAZON SUCKS TOO!]

Amazon said Wikileaks had failed to adhere to its terms of service.

[Do I see a pattern of cowardice here? Yes, I do!]

"It's clear that Wikileaks doesn't own or otherwise control all the rights to this classified content. Further it is not credible that the extraordinary volume of 250,000 classified documents that Wikileaks is publishing could have been carefully redacted in such a way as to ensure that they weren't putting innocent people in jeopardy," Amazon said on its website.

[Amazon conveniently ignores the Congressional investigation that reported that NO INNOCENT LIVES have been lost or put in jeopardy because of what WikiLeaks published.]  ( Congressman Ron Paul Defends WikiLeaks & Julian Assange )

To their OWN citizens!

Free Bradley Manning!

Bradley Manning, who REPORTED the war crimes, has been jailed, AND WITHOUT A TRIAL!!
The killer/soldier criminals who COMMITTED the war crimes are still running around FREE!

And NOW these "heros" have added 9 Afghan boys collecting firewood to their company flag!

« Last Edit: 2013-August-19 03:55:30 PM by DennisLeeWilson » Logged

Objectivist & Sovereign Individual
Creator of Atlas Shrugged Celebration Day & Artemis Zuna Trading Post
Signatory: Covenant of Unanimous Consent
Creator of this site
Forum/Blog Owner
Posts: 1331

Existence exists & Man's mind can know it.

WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: 2011-March-12 12:28:02 PM »


If you are like me, you want alternatives to some of the organizations* that have shown, by their various public actions, their true Statist, anti-capitalist, anti-freedom colors.

Here is an alternative to Amazon

next time you buy a book try
Shipping is always FREE worldwide, and they are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP

*Amazon, Paypal, ebay and Bank of America immediately leap to my mind.

Objectivist & Sovereign Individual
Creator of Atlas Shrugged Celebration Day & Artemis Zuna Trading Post
Signatory: Covenant of Unanimous Consent
Creator of this site
Forum/Blog Owner
Posts: 1331

Existence exists & Man's mind can know it.

WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: 2011-December-17 10:56:25 PM »

"An envelope full of money passed by hand through a throng of drunken revelers seems like it would get to its intended recipient faster and more effectively than Paypal."

Do You Hear What I Hear? Yes, It’s Paypal Stealing Money From Kids
John Biggs
Tuesday, December 6th, 2011

It’s the holiday season, when a webmaster’s mind turns to thoughts of love and charity. Take Regretsy, for example. The site collected a bit of money and began buying and sending gifts to the kids in the Regretsy community whose parents were having financial problems. In this economy, that could be just about anybody and, the Internet being the Internet, there was an outpouring of affection and donations. It warms, as they say, the cockles of the heart.

Unfortunately, Regretsy used Paypal.

As of yesterday, Paypal shut down the account and put a hold on Regretsy founder April Winchell’s account. They also forced her to refund the money she collected, less the fees Paypal took out – twice.

I’ll let you read the post yourself. It’s a gem of horrible customer support. But this part is classic:

  • PAYPAL: Only a nonprofit can use the Donate button.
    ME: That’s false. It says right in the PDF of instructions for the Donate button that it can be used for “worthy causes.”
    PAYPAL: I haven’t seen that PDF. And what you’re doing is not a worthy cause, it’s charity.
    ME: What’s the difference?
    PAYPAL: You can use the donate button to raise money for a sick cat, but not poor people.

A sick cat, eh?

Now April is a repeat offender. She’s raised money for needy people before and I suspect she’ll do it again. Clearly this sort of largesse is far too suspect to be ignored, especially in the cesspool of iniquity and scam-artists that is the dark binary star of Ebay and Paypal.

What’s Paypal’s problem? April used the “Donate” button instead of the “Buy Now” button on Paypal, a mistake that many make when, you know, soliciting donations. Donations, it seems, require pages of documentation citing non-profit status, something not mentioned directly on Paypal’s website. Instead, anyone can make a donate button – heck, I just did it – and then suffer the consequences when the Paypal militia figures it out. Why not lock the “Donate” button down and make the homeless shelter hire a lawyer in order to file for the ability to accept donations? That seems like it would be effective, non?

Paypal is historically histrionic when it comes to fraud. Either you’re getting screwed on a massive scale or your entire account is shut down on spurious charges. I understand that Paypal has to face scammers and fraudsters every day, but seriously? You hear more about folks like Merlin Mann and now Regretsy getting dinged than the scammers who tried to rent us a place in the Catskills that didn’t belong to them last winter. We trusted them, after all, because they took Paypal.

Paypal no longer seems like the service of choice for things like this and I’d recommend companies start looking into alternate ways to collect money including Amazon (Kickstarter uses this quite effectively) and Google Check-Out or, barring that, hosting their own merchant accounts. An envelope full of money passed by hand through a throng of drunken revelers seems like it would get to its intended recipient faster and more effectively than Paypal.


UPDATE – A Paypal spokesperson wrote:

  • PayPal Statement:

    We can’t comment specifically on the account due to our privacy policy. However, we can confirm that the funds have been released and we are working directly with the account holder on this matter. We are also making a donation to Regretsy to help families in need this holiday season. We’re very sorry this occurred.

    For reference, we have clear guidelines for any business who uses PayPal to accept donations. For example, we require certain documentation to prevent misuse of the donated funds and, if the recipient claims charitable status, to determine whether they are properly registered. As a regulated payment service, we’re also required by law to follow these guidelines.

    We appreciate that this can be an inconvenience, but we have a responsibility to all our customers – both donors and recipients; or buyers and sellers. In this instance, we recognized our error and moved as swiftly as possible to fix it.

« Last Edit: 2013-April-07 07:39:11 PM by DennisLeeWilson » Logged

Objectivist & Sovereign Individual
Creator of Atlas Shrugged Celebration Day & Artemis Zuna Trading Post
Signatory: Covenant of Unanimous Consent
Creator of this site
Forum/Blog Owner
Posts: 1331

Existence exists & Man's mind can know it.

WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: 2015-December-12 09:00:25 PM »

More PayPal troubles

The truly open smartphone that cares about your privacy.

Dear Neo900 supporter,

If you have been following the project on IRC (Freenode #neo900) or
on, you will already have read that we are having
problems with payments made through PayPal.

We have now collected some more information, and we would like to
give you a comprehensive update on the situation, and how it affects
progress of the project.

What happened

PayPal established a “reserve” on the account of Neo900 UG, preventing
the project from using the balance of currently EUR 37’934, which at
the time of writing represents more than two thirds of the liquid assets
of the project.

While communication with PayPal has been polite, we were given the
impression that our funds would be liberated within a reasonable amount
of time, and we provided PayPal with the information they requested at
various points in the dialog, PayPal have not removed the blockage and
have not even clearly indicated as to when they would be willing to do


In June, PayPal surprisingly blocked withdrawals from the account of
Neo900 UG. The explanation we received was that PayPal needed Neo900 UG
to provide various pieces of information regarding its business, and
that the block would be lifted once we provided this information.
Incoming payments were still possible.

Since some banks occasionally block accounts while waiting for routine
paperwork, we were not overly alarmed at that time.

Towards the end of July, PayPal also blocked incoming payments. Given
that we were at the time busy preparing for and then attending
CCCamp2015, it took a few weeks before we could provide all the
requested material, which we did at the end of August.

A few days later, PayPal allowed incoming payments again, but also
informed us that they would establish a “rolling reserve” on the
account, with details to follow in the following days.

We interpreted this to mean that incoming payments would be held for
some days or weeks, to ensure their validity. This still sounded
somewhat reasonable.

The next shoe dropped in September, when PayPal revealed the conditions
of this reserve:

    almost all of the existing balance in the account would be held for
      the reserve.

    a percentage of all incoming payments would be held to further grow
      the reserve, until reaching a total amount of USD 200’000.
      (We had about EUR 40’000 in the account at that time, to spend
      mainly on advance purchases but also on on-going development.)

    PayPal elected to set the percentage to withhold to 100%.

    the conditions for releasing the reserve were not clearly spelled
      out, but there was an implied suggestion that funds entering the
      reserve might be released after remaining there for 180 days.

Considering that the project operates with minimum margins, just having
most of its assets frozen for an unknown amount of time would be

PayPal wrote that such a reserve was normal for “card sales”, suggesting
some confusion on their end.

We were hopeful that these aggressive conditions were merely the result
of a misunderstanding, and PayPal themselves suggested that the reserve
could be lifted or at least improved once additional formalities are

We continued to accept payments through PayPal during all this,
expecting PayPal to act in good faith and to see a speedy resolution
as something in their own interest. However, after several exchanges
with PayPal failed to produce results, we decided to prevent further
damage and removed payments through PayPal from our shop.

Payments made by wire transfer to the Neo900 UG bank account are not
affected by all this.

Why are they doing this to us ?

When blocking the account, PayPal indicated that they only needed
additional information about the account owner (Neo900 UG) and that
the blockade would be removed once the information was provided.

PayPal indeed did as promised, but replaced the blockade with the
reserve. Once again, the message was that more information (the
company’s registration number) was needed to loosen the reserve.
That loosening never happen, despite providing the information.

PayPal also suggested that our supporters may not be sufficiently
aware of the crowdfunding nature of the project and the associated
risks, which in turn would increase the risk of unhappy customers
wanting their money back.

In further communication, there have been hints that the reserve
may be loosened after a while, or that part of the funds could be
released if we can present paid (!) invoices for project expenses,
but we basically got the impression that PayPal are stalling, and
are not interested in releasing the funds the project needs to

One may now think that PayPal are simply malicious. Some people
who had experienced similar issues seem to have reached this

However, we eventually found (thanks to “ravelo” who pointed us to
it) a much more plausible explanation: PayPal may simply be
responding to the chargeback risk that comes with accepting credit

Unfortunately, PayPal choose to do this in a way that is extremely
intransparent and harmful.

Why did we use PayPal at all ?

Neo900 UG initially only accepted payments through wire transfer.
However, after many supporters asked for a means to pay by credit
card, due to wire transfers being difficult and expensive for them,
we looked for a way to accommodate these wishes.

Directly accepting credit card payments is known to be difficult,
especially for a small start-up like Neo900 UG, but PayPal quickly
emerged as a supposedly friendly option.

While there had been reports in the past about similar incidents, PayPal
have not received much bad press in the last years, and we felt that
these issues must have been resolved since.
What we did not understand
at the time is that using PayPal would not solve the underlying problem
inherent with accepting credit cards, and in fact make it worse.

PayPal proved to be very popular. For example, the project received in
September almost 60% of the payments through PayPal.


PayPal’s aggressive blockade of most of the assets of Neo900 UG has
the following consequences for the project:

    to avoid throwing good money after bad, we no longer accept payments
      through PayPal in the shop. We continue to accept payments through
      wire transfer (SWIFT, SEPA).

If international wire transfers are expensive or difficult in your
  country, you may want to consider to use TransferWise
  (, which may offer better conditions.

    in order to avoid misunderstandings of the kind PayPal allege, we
      have also posted a summary of how this project is financed  
      and we have made small changes to the terminology used to describe
      our project on and in the shop.

    since most of the liquid assets of Neo900 UG are blocked, we had to
      halt all advance purchases.

    we had to suspend all technical work for the time being, to focus
      the remaining resources exclusively on restoring the financial
      viability of the project.

Communication with PayPal

Several supporters of our project have contacted PayPal to inquire about
the status of their payment and to ask that it be passed to Neo900 UG.

The most common responses were:

    PayPal assured all our customers that their payment went through and
      that it has been credited to the account of Neo900 UG.

While this is technically correct and we can see incoming payments
  in the list of transactions and the account balance, it is at the
  same time misleading in the sense that all this ends up being part
  of the reserve and we cannot withdraw and use it.

    PayPal refuse to provide customers with any details about the state
      of payments that have been credited to the account of Neo900 UG,
      claiming privacy policies prevented them.

We therefore think it unlikely that payments that ended up in the
reserve can be liberated through a dialog between our supporters and

However, we believe that PayPal may change their risk assessment if
enough customers assure them that they want payments to be liberated
to Neo900 UG and that, if PayPal complies with this request, they will
consider the transaction as successful and fully concluded, even if
the project should fail to deliver or run into any other problems.

We believe that such statements from customers would give PayPal the
assurance that, if chargebacks should occur regardless, they could
counter and successfully challenge them.

How to fix it

We contracted a lawyer and had her send a letter demanding that PayPal
release the funds. PayPal responded one month later basically
reiterating their position and stating that the hostile blockade should
not have surprised us, for their terms and conditions grant them
sweeping liberties.

Furthermore, since PayPal so far has not provided clear indications of
which payments are affected by the “freeze”, and we cannot deduce this
from the information available to us, we have asked PayPal to provide
us with a list of the transactions affected. We are awaiting a response
to this request.

To strengthen our case and to ease PayPal’s worries, we would like to
ask you, if you have made a payment to Neo900 UG since April 2015, to
consider contacting PayPal on your own, assert that you understand
the crowdfunding nature of this project, and request that your payment
(which may or may not be affected by the freeze) be released.

For your convenience, we have prepared the following template:

---------------------------------- cut here -----------------------------------

Dear PayPal,

regarding my transaction, ID , the seller Neo900 UG
(haftungsbeschraenkt), informed me that PayPal has frozen the funds
in a “Reserve”.

To my knowledge, this is due to a misunderstanding whether this
transaction constitutes a pre-sale or a crowdfunding payment.

I hereby want to make clear that it is a payment for crowdfunding, and
I fully understand the risks associated with that. So I would like to
request PayPal to release 100% of the funds to the seller, upon which
I would consider the transaction as successful and fully concluded.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I hope Neo900 UG will
swiftly gain access to the funds to complete the project.

Kind regards,

---------------------------------- cut here -----------------------------------

In the above template, please fill in the following fields:
the ID of your PayPal transaction (e.g., 3UF390823E5159484)
your name

We are very sorry about this complication that delays project progress
and unnecessarily molests our customers. We hope you nevertheless keep
up with your incredible support and enthusiasm.

Thank you for your help !

    The Neo900 team
« Last Edit: 2015-December-12 09:18:47 PM by DennisLeeWilson » Logged

Objectivist & Sovereign Individual
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